Our off-season podcast series continues with the Hall Of Fame recap where we break down our 1st Annual 3U3D Hall of Fame Ballots and discuss why some of the other players didn’t get in. We also hit on the tough subject of what to do with the PED players. Should they get in? Will they get in? Take a listen and find out!
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The 2013 Major League Baseball Hall of Fame class will be announced this week (Wednesday, 2 p.m. EST, MLB Network), and it’s one of the most star-studded, controversial groups the sport has ever seen. Members of the 3,000 hit club (Craig Biggio, for example), fan favorites (Kenny Lofton comes to mind), and admitted PED users (a large portion, but namely Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire) grace the list.
There are a million different ways to go with this class, and a lot of it hinges on one’s personal belief about steroid users and whether or not they are deserving of baseball’s highest honor.
Some believe that nobody will be elected this year. Others believe it will be one of the biggest classes of all-time. Here at Three Up, Three Down, we don’t get a real vote. So instead, we polled ourselves to see who we would elect if we had the chance. Per BBWAA rules, a player must receive at least 75 percent of the vote to be enshrined, and each voter can turn in a ballot with anywhere from 0-10 players listed.
We’ve enlisted the help of three friends of the podcast, including two members of the 2012 MLB Fan Cave top 30: Kelsey Shea, Megan Washington, and Matt Mapes to get us to eight votes, meaning six are needed to get into 3U3D Cooperstown.
Will Dale Murphy get elected on his 15th and final time as a candidate? Will Barry Bonds bypass the issues surrounding his career and score a spot? Is Curt Schilling worthy at all? Read on to find out!
Without further adieu, here is the official 3U3D Hall of Fame class of 2013:
IN (75% or more of votes):
1. Jeff Bagwell (87.5%) – KP: Even today when you mention the Houston Astros, the first two guys that pop into mind are Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell. They shaped that franchise during their time there and have been role models for the hard nosed, tough, and gritty player. All of this, and I haven’t even mentioned their stats that include a 3,000 hit club member and a Rookie of the Year/MVP combo.
2. Craig Biggio (87.5%) – Megan: Craig Biggio is one of only 28 men who have reached 3,000 hits. Biggio’s bat also placed him fifth all-time in doubles; the only player in the top four not already in the Hall of Fame from that list is Pete Rose. The crazy thing about Biggio is that some players don’t get recognized as an All-Star at one position, let alone as a catcher AND second baseman.
3. Dale Murphy (87.5%) – Mapes: Dale Murphy, or “Murph,” is the most interesting, non-steroid case on the ballot. His numbers stack up as one of, if not the best player of the 1980’s. He won back-to-back MVP’s. He had a 30-30 season when they were rarer. He won five straight Gold Gloves. He once played in 740 straight games. Unfortunately, the prime of his career was so short and his counting statistics don’t add up. However, where Murphy made his mark in baseball history is off-the-field. He was the only player in the 1980’s to win both the Lou Gehrig and Roberto Clemente Award’s for his charity work. In a baseball era now where we are keeping great players OUT of Cooperstown for doing the wrong things, shouldn’t we reward a great player who did all the right things and more?
4. Mike Piazza (75.0%) – Jeremy: As a lifelong Dodgers fan, I’ve always had a soft spot for Mike Piazza, even if he did say he would go into the Hall with a Mets hat on. Piazza couldn’t actually catch worth a damn, but the 1993 Rookie of the Year and 12-time All-Star is still headed for Cooperstown. His .308 average, 427 homers, 1,335 RBI and .922 OPS in 16 seasons doesn’t make Piazza “arguably” the greatest offensive catcher of all time; it cements it.
JUST MISSED (50-75% of votes):
1. Don Mattingly (50.0%) – Kelsey: This isn’t a ploy to make Jeremy like me – I really believe Don Mattingly has been unfairly ignored as a Hall of Fame candidate. He only averaged about 20 home runs per season, but in his 1985 MVP season, he hit .324 with 35 homers and a ridiculous 145 RBI, and Mattingly held a .307 career average. And as usual, his nine Gold Gloves are overlooked, despite the massive importance defense SHOULD play in a Hall of Fame vote. And really, if your number is retired by the Yankees of all teams, you should earn an automatic pass to the Hall!
2. Fred McGriff (50.0%) – KP: “The Crime Dog” never really got much publicity, but was so consistent over his career. I don’t think that finishing at 493 home runs, instead of 500 should stop Fred McGriff from getting votes. That’s like saying Al Simmons and his 2,927 hits shouldn’t be considered because he didn’t crack 3,000. C’mon man! How can you hate on a guy who still has TV cameos with the Tom Emanski commercial running for baseball skills? All I’m saying is I hope he doesn’t have to wait for more “Back-to-Back-to-Back AAU National Championships” to get into the Hall of Fame (+1 for all those who get the reference).
MAYBE NEXT YEAR (25-37.5% of votes):
1. Barry Bonds (37.5%) – Brian: What else can I say? The man hit the most home runs in Major League history, and is the only member of the 400/400 AND 500/500 clubs. Even before he likely started using PED’s, Barry Bonds was the best player in baseball for nearly a decade. He and his seven MVP’s deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame.
2. Roger Clemens (37.5%) – Angelo: Brian’s case for Bonds is very similar to my case for Roger Clemens. Despite the controversy surrounding him, “The Rocket” was one of the best pitchers of all time. Seven Cy Youngs, 354 wins, 4,672 strikeouts and an MVP award blow your argument out of the water, just like Clemens blew away hitters over 24 unbelievable seasons.
3. Edgar Martinez (37.5%) – Matt: Let me start by saying the DH jibber-jabber is a bunch of malarkey. If players like Don Mattingly are going to be held out of the Hall despite terrific defense, then you better stick to your guns and welcome the best offensive players, even if they have defensive deficiencies. Edgar Martinez, a fan favorite (and not just in Seattle), MADE the DH position. He is the best who ever lived to play DH, and has a career .312 average. Put the man in Cooperstown!
4. Larry Walker (37.5%) – Matt: Very simply, I loved Larry Walker. He was one of the most consistent players of the 90’s and early 2000’s, and never got the respect he deserved (sort of like current Rockie Todd Helton). Walker hit .363 and .379 in 1998 and 1999, respectively, wining two of his three career N.L. batting titles. Explain to me how all the voters have missed the 1997 MVP’s .313 career average, nearly 400 homers and nearly 230 stolen bases, in his first two years of eligibility? His .400 career on-base percentage was 37 points higher than Biggio’s even! Did I mention the seven Gold Gloves?
5. Lee Smith (25%) – Jeremy: What else does Lee Smith have to do? A career 3.03 ERA, 478 saves (most all-time until Trevor Hoffman came along), and 8.7 K/9 for his career. I know closers aren’t held as highly in the voter’s eye, but Smith not being in the Hall yet is a travesty.
6. Curt Schilling (25%) – Megan: Curt Schilling was a tough call for me because I feel like I’m still on the fence and not just because he was a former Red Sox player, but because his career wasn’t a picture of consistency. You can’t base a vote on postseason work alone–though his postseason stats are crazy. He’s a six time All-Star, led his league two different years in wins, strikeouts and WHIP… and he has a few special rings.
AT LEAST YOU GET 15 TRIES (12.5% of votes):
1. Mark McGwire (12.5%) – Brian: Similar to Bonds, “Big Mac,” is a legend for a lot of good reasons and a lot of bad reasons. Mark McGwire took steroids and helped propel a then-single-season record of 70 homers out of the park in 1998. In the process, he helped save a sport that seemed to be dying at the time. His contribution to the game and his raw talent (583 career homers) gets my vote – remember, steroids don’t make a swing good, they just make the ball go farther.
2. Jack Morris (12.5%) – Kelsey: I didn’t vote for Jack Morris, but it was tough to leave him off. If this year’s class wasn’t so loaded, he would probably be on my ballot. With “only” 254 career wins and a decent 3.90 career ERA, voters might be scared off. Sure, Morris never won a Cy Young, but he was one of the most dominant pitchers of the 80’s, racking up at least 14 wins in nine separate seasons that decade, 13 times in his career overall.
3. Tim Raines (12.5%) – Mapes: This site can better explain Tim Raines candidacy than I ever could. Raines was overshadowed by Rickey Henderson, but is a Hall of Famer in his own right. When you steal 808 bases in a career, you deserve serious consideration.
4. Alan Trammell (12.5%) – Angelo: A Detroit Tiger for life, Alan Trammell is someone I will strongly back for the Hall of Fame as long as humanly possible. His career stats (.285, 185 homers, 1,003 RBI, 236 steals) aren’t overwhelming, but he had nearly 2,400 career hits and four Gold Glove awards. Baseball-Reference.com’s player-rater (determined by fans) has him ranked the 53rd best hitter of all time. That’s plenty of evidence for me.
5. David Wells (12.5%) – Brian: Why does a guy like David Wells, who has 239 career wins, decent ERA and WHIP, nowhere near 3,000 strikeouts, off-the-field issues, and only two All-Star appearances crack my ballot? Well, he threw a perfect game, has two rings, and, well…is an awesome dude. Wells never finished above third in the Cy Young vote, but his consistent success with nine teams over 21 years gives me reason to vote in his favor.
NOT EVEN CLOSE (0% of votes – wouldn’t be on the 2014 ballot):
1. Julio Franco
2. Kenny Lofton
3. Bernie Williams
4. Rafael Palmeiro
5. Sammy Sosa
Here are the full ballots of each person, for your viewing pleasure (click to enlarge):
Tweet us about our picks! We are more than happy to discuss, debate, and analyze with you. If you like what you see, you can also follow @3u3d on Twitter and LIKE us on Facebook at Three Up, Three Down!
Well, the San Diego Padres are the newest organization to give a big middle finger to traditionalist baseball fans by announcing they would move their outfield fences in for the 2013 season. Petco Park will follow Safeco Field in Seattle, Citi Field for the New York Mets before the 2012 season, and the ridiculous right field porch at the new Yankee Stadium.
What happened to the good old days? What happened to stadiums like the Polo Grounds (483 feet to the center field wall)? Okay, that’s a bit extreme. But still, since when does giving in to the fan’s thirst for the long ball take precedence over classic, fundamental baseball?
I’ll tell you when. It was 1998 when a juiced-up Mark McGwire hit a then-record 70 home runs in the same season Sammy Sosa hit 66. In 2001, Barry Bonds got so big it looked like he would have trouble lifting his arms above his shoulders, and he smacked 73 home runs in a single season.
Even though everyone and their mothers know those numbers were inflated, Americans really fell in love with the home run. And it’s understandable – to most fans, there is nothing more majestic than a perfectly squared up fastball hitting the upper deck on the fly. It’s the biggest, hardest, farthest, most impressive feat a batter can accomplish.
But we have the Home Run Derby every July, so why can’t we get our fix then? When the Mets decided to move their fences in to a more attainable distance, for lack of nicer terms, it didn’t help. They still finished in fourth place in the NL East, and star third baseman David Wright didn’t see a huge jump in his power numbers.
So what’s the big deal? Personally, I think it’s a cop-out. Did the Yankees really need a joke of a right-field fence? Did the Mariners really finish in fourth place because their fences were too deep? If the Padres get better in 2013, is it going to be because the fences were 11 feet closer? Or because they have a better team in general, regardless of the stadium?
Mets GM Sandy Alderson admitted that when the Mets decided to move the fences in at Citi Field, it was because “scoring brought excitement.” Well Sandy, so does winning.
The San Francisco Giants and Los Angeles Dodgers have two of the most pitcher-friendly parks in baseball, and neither team were a power threat in their own stadiums in 2012. They finished 1-2 in the NL West and now the Giants are in the World Series.
Let’s ban the moving of the fences (and the wave while we’re at it…sheesh), and put together teams that thrive on base hits, good base running, bunting, defense and pitching.
You know…how baseball is supposed to be.
Alas, chicks dig the long ball. Fences will continue to move. But are you for or against it? This blogger says nay. Vote below:
– Jeremy Dorn (@Jamblinman)
This seems appropriate, given that Barry Larkin and the late Ron Santo were officially inducted into the MLB Hall of Fame a few days ago. There is no higher honor that can be bestowed upon a player than being enshrined into Cooperstown, where only the best of the best (unless your name is Pete Rose and are unjustly kept out for leading an immoral lifesty–sorry…back on track) reside.
We can already look forward to next year’s potential induction class, because the names among first-time eligible players is mind-blowing. We have three steroid-users, two sure-fire fan favorite Hall of Famers, and a World Series hero who might not quite have the numbers to garner 75 percent of the vote.
Let me break down this group of candidates one by one (predicted induction teams along side):
Barry Bonds, San Francisco Giants
You may be surprised, considering I’m a true blue Dodger fan, to read that I truly believe Bonds is a Hall of Famer. Even if just for the seasons preceding 2001, Bonds was a one-of-a-kind talent. Power, speed, intelligence and defensive prowess seemed only to be matched in that generation by Ken Griffey, Jr.
That being said, there’s a difference between deserving the Hall and actually making it there. I don’t think the voters will forgive Bonds on the first ballot, but that he eventually will be rightfully enshrined a few years later. There’s no way the all-time single season and career home run leader* will be shut out of Cooperstown.
Career stats: .298 average, 762 HR, 1,996 RBI, 514 SB, 1.051 OPS, 2,558 BB, 7 MVP awards, 8 Gold Gloves, 14-time AS
Predicted HOF induction year: 2017
Roger Clemens, Boston Red Sox
The Rocket is another guy like Bonds. He was clearly an incredible player from day one, who got caught up in performance enhancing drugs later on in his career. But based on his resume overall, there’s no way Clemens can’t be in the Hall.
What worries me about guys like Clemens and Bonds is that it sets a certain precedent for the rest of potential Hall of Famers who used steroids. If Bonds and Clemens are in, does that mean Rafael Palmeiro and Mark McGwire are in? Does that excuse Pete Rose from his lifetime ban? This all remains to be seen.
Career stats: 354-184, 3.12 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 4,672 K, 8.6 K/9, 7 Cy Young awards, 1 MVP award, 11-time AS
Predicted HOF induction year: 2018
Sammy Sosa, Chicago Cubs
Sosa was kind of an under-the-radar guy until his golden steroid age of 1998. His muscles blew up, and so did his home run totals. Baseball fans can’t deny that the home run race between Sosa and McGwire that summer was incredibly epic and exciting, but it was all a sham.
But did Sosa have the overwhelming numbers like Bonds and Clemens to earn a trip to Cooperstown? The fact that 402 of his 609 home runs were from 1998 and on (in some voters’ minds, anything after ’98 is considered tainted) is very worrisome for his chances. Still, his other numbers are very impressive.
Career stats: .273 average, 609 HR, 1,667 RBI, 234 SB, .878 OPS, 1 MVP, 7-time AS
Craig Biggio, Houston Astros
If there is a more deserving, clean Hall of Fame nominee in this first-year class than Biggio, I want to see him. Not only was Biggio the ultimate utility man (started as a catcher, played mostly second base, but also used in the outfield), he put up big numbers no matter where he played.
Biggio is a member of the exclusive 3,000 hit club, and will always be remembered for his impressive hustle and scrappy-ness (not to mention his trademark tarred helmet). The facts that Biggio was a huge fan favorite in Houston, played his whole career for the Astros, and never even gave reason to entertain the thought of juicing, are bonus points.
Career stats: .281 average, 291 HR, 1,175 RBI, 414 SB, 3,060 H, 4 Gold Gloves, 7-time AS
Predicted HOF Induction Year: 2013
Mike Piazza, Los Angeles Dodgers (sorry, Mets fans)
Here is one of those no-brainer inductees. Piazza is widely regarded, and deservedly so, as the greatest offensive catcher who ever played the game. From winning Rookie (and Mullet) of the Year with the Dodgers in 1993, to leading the Mets to a World Series appearance in 2000, Piazza was a force in the middle of lineups his whole career.
Piazza never would have been confused for a good defensive catcher, but that’s not what he’s on the docket for. Instead, it’s his nine 30-homer seasons, and over-.300 career batting average. Piazza really was a complete offensive star, and never gave any reason for PED speculation in an age where steroids ran rampant. Not bad for a 62nd-round draft pick.
Career stats: .308 average, 427 HR, 1,335 RBI, .922 OPS, 1 Rookie of the Year, 12-time AS
Predicted HOF induction year: 2013
Schilling will forever be remembered, especially in New England, for his gutsy pitching performance in the 2004 World Series run that helped bring an end to the long Red Sox title drought. The bloody sock has become an icon all its own, standing for strength, perseverance, and victory.
But does one huge postseason allow voters to look past the career numbers and enshrine Schilling in the Hall? Will an 11-2/2.23/0.97 career postseason line actually trump a win total well below 300 and no major awards? Time will tell; I wouldn’t be surprised either way. In my mind, Schilling is one of the best pitchers of all time, worthy of enshrinement.
Career stats: 216-164, 3.46 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 3,116 K, 8.6 K/9, 6-time AS
Predicted HOF Induction Year: 2022
– Jeremy Dorn (@Jamblinman)